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christophe49



Joined: 10 Jun 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:15 pm    Post subject: Require information Reply with quote

Hello, my name Christopher, and I need advice on choosing trees. I live since last fall to a new home (in 49) surrounded by a park of 18500m ² rather well planted and composed of various species (including a young bald cypress that I adore). But there are some close to home (about 2500m ²) which was composed of moor, everything has been cut there are 5 or 6 years. I love this space to create a sort of undergrowth /small forest. There are already quite small oaks (less than a meter) that grow. Very Happy poor soil, sandy and dry (the place is said to call the ford of the moor!) Is a former small sandpit. I am looking to marry trees to oak wood to create this sub. I have already planted two chestnuts, and hazel. But otherwise I dry. I thought of ash and beech .... if possible to grow fast enough Rolling Eyes But I can also plant trees more "exotic", but not resinous acacia or because I'm already full .. . Confused voila, if you have any ideas I'm interested ....
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Planfor
Pépiniériste naisseur, près de Mont-de-Marsan (dép. Landes), depuis 1983 : jeunes plants dans des mottes forestières
Florent



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Christophe, "consisted of heath, everything has been cut there are 5 or 6 years" What is he exactly? Open moorland? Apart from these young oaks, shrubs grow back since? The best advice we can give you is to observe the plants that grow in the area, or in habitats that match those of your field. The transformation of a biotope is difficult to obtain in the short term (if we want to intervene as little as possible) but possible (because natural) and exciting (if only one is interested in a minimum). Evolution of a biotope (broadly) :Prairie /Lande> shrub Grove> Little Wood> Forest With implant primarily shrubs and trees known as "pioneers", who merely little humus and enjoy a good show.
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christophe49



Joined: 10 Jun 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Florent big thank you, this is exactly the answers I expected! Here are two pictures taken this morning: you can see there are a lot of waste ground, there is also a "big" pile of leaves /bugs /chestnut chestnuts from what I picked up this fall, some chestnuts ... I have germinated the étalerais may be this winter I'll pick up again. There is also the heather on almost any surface. if not for the pioneer species, there are pine trees that I cut because I have already 4 huge tracks including one that ... the rest is mainly of oak and some small shrubs jobs which I not yet know the name. regarding the broom and acacia trees, I am overcome in some part of the park, so I do not wanna to locate in it Smile for exotics I follow you, and I will even follow your advice (in love with nature I am) and try to find Epipactis atrorubens hypopitys Monotropa and regional and other species I had not thought of larch (approaching a few of my bald cypress), but c ' is a very good idea and its wood is also very interesting exterior carpentry. I will continue to peel your message to me a little list of plans to find this fall. in any case I have digested the fact that changing these biotopene will not snap your fingers, but within a natural process, which ultimately flows from the source Very Happy and finally a photo of the "park" for South -is. and a big thank you for formulating a response as complete!
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Florent



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bah nothing ... I think the idea is great (though far from what is usually done) and I like to participate (modestly), even from a distance. Better, I allowed myself the privilege of being at the forefront to contemplate and learn because it's you that in a few years, will teach us how to "do" a forest, like a character sprung from the world of Giono ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH-oS2OGI_o "quite a bit of waste ground, there is also a" big "pile of leaves /bugs /chestnut chestnut" This kind of litter is valuable, ideally to a maximum annual harvest and manage inventory at best. In fact for a "forest" the idea is not so much forest to plant stuff and clean the rest, for your issues and ways are not those of forestry (even if you can do so on a small scale) . The idea is rather to draw inspiration from nature by giving it a boost (get it in 50 years it produced itself in two or three centuries of peace), ie in "manufacturer" ground (pedogenesis). Vegetation (and its long-term prosperity!) Is the consequence of a clean floor to accommodate (at least that's my reasoning, after everyone does as he wants /can). The first main line, to optimize the "terra-forming" of this "desert", is to provide maximum organic matter (OM) ie (simplifying) C carbon (matter "dry") and nitrogen N (matter "soft" or "green"). In nature these two contributions are gradually (every year) and concurrent (on an annual review)> C production by the leaves and dead twigs (autumn, winter) and N by the soil life (spring, summer). One and the other self feed and are part of a cycle: MO> depolymerization of lignocellulose (C) by fungi by consuming N> and lodging for bacteria> colonization of other critters> Call of earthworms Waste Disposal and recovery of minerals MO=manufacture of humus> increased biomass> MO production available (C + N) In summary, to launch the machine, bring on the floor of the carbonaceous material. The second line is large create a canopy to: _ secure and protect the litter> limit the extreme weather (heat, drought, wind, frost, heavy rain etc..) And their consequences (erosion, runoff, leaching)> increase soil life _ bring nitrogen> offset its consolidated by fungi (which are going to draw from the soil)> limit the deficiency of seedlings. This role can be played by legumes (Fabaceae) that fix atmospheric nitrogen (through rhizobium). Among the legumes you acacia, Robinia and broom. Thus these species are implanted virtually anywhere because they did not need a nutrient rich soil. If you do not want a broom, you can plant: fenugreek, lupine, alfalfa, peas, soybeans, clover Personally I would try something> seedlings in September (the day before a rain) and then spreading litter over> pushing vegetation will provide cover to the weather, the roots till the soil (aeration, moisture), then the plants will die (at first frost) providing additional OM available for the following year. Other ideas in bulk, always without great expense to optimize: 1. I see you have a large birch, we can take advantage (thanks to the westerlies): left fallow (stop mow) the industry for 2-3 years. You can easily obtain (and free) tens /hundreds of young plants. We can compensate for the effect of a lousy fallow by planting a "flower meadow" and /or "honey" (if well chosen /drawn it will take over), which is not ugly at all background lawn. Advantages: aesthetic (casket that will enhance, by dividing the lawn and its points of color, subjects and isolated hedgerow country of the background), significant increase in biodiversity (which will benefit your other plants: fruit, fight organic auxiliaries [what I hate (secretly) that anthropocentric pedagogy] ...), relative reduction of mowing time (and "incidental" to the consolidated oil), soil regeneration (packed and depleted by mowing, cf. the level of dryness of the grass), reduction in the nursery bill Disadvantages: envy of the neighborhood, excess? idleness possible threat of overweening self-satisfaction and cost of a few packets seeds? 2. I return to the young oaks. They behave as pioneers (probably aided by the remnants of the ecosystem of 5-6 years ago), we must consider them as such. If they can establish themselves, it is important to preserve them because they will always be more hardy than trees transplanted and they are a good basis for further process (generation MO + cover) If they are too dense, clarify them a bit (eg every meter?) by removing (or transplanting) the weakest preference for the strongest (limited competition). No need to be radical, it can range from year to year, as we perceive the effects of that competition (limited growth, wilting of the foliage down etc..). 3. Constitute "islands" of vegetation performance rather than trying to cover everything at once litter because: _ In the idea of ??going as fast as possible, such a surface would require large technical means for an individual (spreading RCW massive> 500 m3 to 20 cm on 2500 m2) _ It will be very difficult to maintain plantations in the most eroded parts /dry heath, the work will be painful at times unsuccessfully, the litter will be wasted (yield poor operation). _ The islands form a sustainable basis, with much less maintenance, much of the work being done by nature itself (maximized output). Although they are initially isolated from each other, they each form a "zone of influence positive" growing year by year all around them: retaining humus upstream slope, and unpacking enrichment of the soil through the root system, establishment of sheltered sectors (wind east side if the dominant West, frosty mornings west side, north side of the sun, cold winds south side) All this generates "micro-habitats" that will eventually join them. Hence the idea (all for it) not too spread out the "" big "pile of leaves /bugs /chestnuts" everywhere but the consistent use layer (10-15 cm, even in the ideal 20-30 cm) from island to island. These islands will be developed /maintained preferably in areas already vegetated, soldiers of the conquest (already have the most efficient for the transformation so that they are to be preferred). 4. Mark (small stakes, stones) some well-chosen paths (where the soil is the poorest) to reduce trampling at least useful. I imagine that your land is not a camp for boyscouts but always to optimize the case, the combined circulation for the work is not to be overlooked (especially first years). Beyond that, the trail system will very quickly to moor a less "idle", the life focusing at the islands, and constitute the beginnings of future trails "forest". It will in any event you plan to walk in your "small wood" and maintain it, much to think about it now (do a little landscaping). 5. I would leave the rock (on the background photo 2), it will house (if not already) a fauna that can be used, for example the beetle is a major predator of pests. To illustrate the principle, in pink trails, blue patches:
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christophe49



Joined: 10 Jun 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, no! Shocked I do not know what is your profession, but if you do not work in the field, you can think of it! thank you again .... I understand the scope of organic matter, so I will remake this fall leaf piles of oak and chestnut without the other and spread out, following my courage I can pick up a few sheets of m3. In the same area I have a big pile of remains (laurel /fir /pine) which dates from the spring and is already inhabited by lots of critters. This is also the pile of chestnut leaves you confused with that of the rock (not very clear photo 2). I'm also a big green lizard population (I'm a big fan of reptiles and amphibians) ..... but for now no snakes or other small cousin .... a few slow worms, the grass frog, a frog and a salamander, but is not the topic. in the famous area to be reforested, the ground is mostly covered with heather, is what you believe in me to remove everything (at the risk of upsetting this biotope) to other plants or sow is what I can I just create these famous islands? I'll let the little oaks, chestnut jobs and make their lives éclairsissant if necessary. I begin to take taste, and a project I wanted to "fast", I turn to a challenge (with you) which is to evolve a biotope to another while respecting the natural cycles, which must also be the most durable. When the meadow flowers I can plant one this year, but for lack of watering nothing has lifted. The photo that you have sown with much more success than me:lol: the meadow is crushed, the jobs in the background measures almost 20m high and 150m distant from the point of taking the photo and as a result I hold that space "free" to play with children and give the "depth" to the park. There is also pushing a lot of wild plants (with some orchids among others ...), I'm not a hard on the mower, fortunately, otherwise I will spend all my weekends! Again thank you for this information, and the time you there Embarassed "even remotely." It is far or not? because if you want to come see the "work" it's possible ....
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Florent



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the late reply, I had to leave. "I do not know what is your profession, but if you do not work in the field, you can think of it!" Yes ... for now I just share my thoughts in the emerging field. In terms of business plan is terrible but I still draws some benefits (if knowledge has a cost, its share price has not). I'm especially curious and patented a self-taught. Also I make bonsai for two years, ie growing trees in pots, which led me to wonder about how a tree on the one hand and that of a ground (here very limited) on the other. And I found two paternities that make sense, in my opinion, in these two areas: Francis Hallé for the trees, the couple Bourguignon for soils. "I'm going to redo this fall leaf piles of oak and chestnut without the other spread" Simply put (in priority) directly beneath the trees /shrubs existing (as mulch, at least 10 cm). If there are more, extend these surfaces (peripheral areas already mulched surfaces are the easiest to "seed") and /or mulch portions where you're planning to plant: it sets the stage> brings life > unpacks the ground> easy planting and plant recovery> more successful, less maintenance. You can also put the dead wood that naturally falls under the trees. This increases the mass of wood-destroying fungi, providing lodging to some predators "auxiliary" (type beetle) and reduces erosion (wind blown leaves, runoff). "This is also the pile of chestnut leaves you confused with that of the rock" Eurf ... mea culpa, I imagined that you had more than that. Now I'm not at all sure it's worth the shot to spread it (especially if chestnut trees growing in it) because, just on the area shown by the picture, it would take 10 lots like this one to cover the islands that j 'have materialized in blue ... This pile is also fairly representative of what is ideally thick litter of islands. So in my opinion: _ leave this job that is your first island of litter /vegetation (Celebrating) _ devote a future litter under trees (blue areas, smaller than the drawing if necessary, s' expanding from year to year depending on what you can provide them). "In the same area I have a big pile of remains (pruning of laurel /fir /pine) which dates from the spring and is already inhabited by lots of critters." I guess this selection n ' is no accident ... Wink Actually this can not be used for the aggradation of your ground but rather to shelter for wildlife. Most conifers, and to a lesser extent the aromatic and odoriferous, are rich in terpenes (hydrocarbon plant> antiseptic, insecticide and fungicide) that make them slow to decompose wood, inhibitor for many plants and acidifying the soil. You can also use these products into mulch species by species (pine at the foot of pine, etc..) And possibly for species known to heathland. "In the famous area to be reforested, the ground is mostly covered with heather, is what you believe in me to remove everything (at the risk of upsetting this biotope) to other plants or sow is what I can just create these famous islands? "certainly not remove all. Any vegetation on the moor is a further step towards your goal because it: _ fixed and protects the soil from climatic extremes (= unstable sandy) _ provides the MO dying (low but not negligible on such land) _ attracts and fixed microbial flora and fauna (rare at this time) and fixed _ draws nutrients (leachable sandy =) Heath implanted there because the soil and exposure suit him today. By pushing the yield of the shade trees (relative freshness, low light) and your soil will change (pH recovered /stabilized soil life): these two simple parameters changed, the heather will disappear by itself, indicating that the "biotope" change. Besides, she will not disappear completely, it will actually be pushed back edge of the "kindling". Meanwhile it is very useful and it would be absurd to replace "force" one species by another (the force is costly and not always successful). The forest is an iceberg. It is believed that this forest is the sum of individuals of particular species, while a forest is first and foremost (in time and space) soil: no forest floor, no forest. But this soil produces, step by step, of vegetative cover in vegetative cover. My humble view is attempting to do (through you) in 50 years what nature alone in 150, hence the idea of ??"push" to go from 3 to 5 times faster ( whole idea is there). Just mimic nature by increasing doses (although, at our level, it remains quite grotesque). Examples: _ By accumulating the MO you bring in a year it would have produced 5. _ By sowing by the handful of pioneers (such as birch) a year goes to several successive years of natural seedlings. _ In preparing the soil for now blank (this is where you can earn as much time as an open moor the rest naturally very long time) you will earn decades of evolution. Then it is an unavoidable issue of Genetics: an oak for 50 years bah it takes 50 years ... Thereupon we can not play, if not on saving existing plants (hence the principle areas "protected", to promote the clarification of the strongest etc.). Ais for you (you or your children) in 50 years of strong trees of 50 years and not 30 or 40 only ... At the risk of repeating myself, the priority is to preserve all that can /wants to grow naturally, it is something gained in the manufacture of your ground. In addition it requires no work, no charge. In this case, we are only managing competition (eg away two chestnut trees that grow to 10 cm from each other> one of them will die or harm another, both the recovery and the move). And if a species tends to disappear under the competition of another is that the process works (again, it may be possible to move these dying plants to other areas where they will be more useful and alive). The helping hand: _ Provide the MO, especially carbon (to feed the fungus, early in the process) and crude protein (mixed or layered with CD)> ideally the BRF hardwood deciduous (fastest )> any litter (leaves, bugs, small dead wood hardwood deciduous)> card (see "lasagna-bed")> hay, straw> shavings, sawdust hardwood deciduous (sometimes give the sawmills) > mature compost and manure> grass clippings (not too=or mixed, either in a thin layer, either pre-composted) _ Create a canopy (fixation /protection + nutrients)> legumes ideally above> the so-called "green manure" For you other (minimally intrusive, on dry ground) seem indicated (at least to try) white mustard, buckwheat (frost resistant) and triticale (grain that provides straw), see here: http://fr.wikipedia.org /wiki /Engrais_vert perennials (eg Erigeron karvinskianus)> annuals /biennials that reseed (eg Oenothera biennis) Concerning this cover it is to do a little experiment: hard to say what will among the plants mentioned. Most traders along better in the islets of litter but some can grow directly on the moor (the goal), the ideal being between the feet of heather (they protect each other). The additional nudges: _ spraying /watering teas (nettle, comfrey, valerian) in the spring, the areas covered (on bare areas it will be mostly lost)> attracts /feeds microbial life (functions "activator compost "+ fertilizer" true ") _ create an emphasis on the slope portions which stream /erode, to retain water and humus (see principle of" terraced ")> stones collected for planting will be well There would help others but surely the subject is vast ... "I begin to take taste, and a project I wanted to" fast ", I turn to a challenge (with you) which is to evolve a biotope to another while respecting the natural cycles, this which must also be the most durable. "The most lasting but also the most logical, easiest and perhaps finally even faster. We were simply taught that these two notions are incompatible: go fast requires throwing and destroying. But nature is far more wonderful :Durability and speed go in the same direction of change, progress. Take for example your little oaks established spontaneously, they are faster than trees and perennial identical transplanted from a nursery. In the latter, to have the same force, they should dig pits to each planting half a cubic meter, with almost as much leaf mold. Not to mention the attention it will lend at least a year or two (watering, possibly fatal mildew etc..) And nothing says it will not die all of a fungal attack in 30 years (genetic degeneration, root damage during planting ...) or a gust of wind (or distorted pivot cut for business reasons). As for your spontaneous oaks, besides the defacto maintenance, this risk is significantly reduced since sown and naturally selected: low miles acorns are dead so the few survivors that you observe are brutes, with pretty healthy pivots (a priori) in that short time bathed in the water table. This story is just that of the fable "The Tortoise and the Hare" ... Hates-you take your time and this little wood will be more than dreams. Wink "So far no snakes or other small cousin .... a few slow worms, frogs redheads, a frog and a salamander" I thought they needed a minimum of moisture, which is rare on a moor. This is the case in your field? There is water nearby? I return to some things: - The major birch To me this case is to be the most efficient (ease of installation in a heath and growth rate) to reach your goal faster :Personally I would tap deeply into this free resource. I may have exaggerated the cut of the lawn (and agree with toshop it's easier to do huhu). There may be smarter, especially if you want to leave the lawn recover from the mature seed and seed mass across the moor. Few hours of seeding will save you several days of planting. - Scotch I think it would be really interesting for the first stage of your little wood. It would prepare the ground for trees favorably because both leguminous shrub and (much more effective than clover in my opinion). Do you really think that this is not manageable, knowing that it is only a step and they will disappear by themselves after the trees installed? - The View Taxodium distichum drought on your land (judging the lawn), I wonder where you sinned the idea of ??planting a bald cypress, one of the few trees on this planet to live feet in water ... It is at a particular site?
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christophe49



Joined: 10 Jun 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

glad I read, the bald cypress was there when I arrived, c? is true that? it is far? be in ideal conditions. But in the bottom of my land there is an emissary (the small dry creek? Was) so there must find a little? Humidity. For the broom I shared mine and old people should not stand even more, suddenly they? S? Affalent? on nearby plants. j? still try to transplant seedlings. regarding amphibians, frogs redheads are wandering down near the? envoy. Near the salamander? A shelter located along? A grove of oaks. Pippin and she was on the moor, which is strange .... but there are two small bowls that I use to? trough for squirrel ... j? have cleared three small? thicket? oak. C? Silent discharges that grew from strains culled. There were about 6 square meters of discharges around each strain. J? Gift've kept mine who was best and most beautiful port for each? One of the three areas. I will try to live in this post-season each of the cate, or significant changes soon
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Florent



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

christophe49 wrote:
at the bottom of my land there is an emissary (the small dry creek? Was) so there must find a little? Humidity.
Hopefully .. . Say you should expect some problems in the coming decades (without wanting to jinx). The giant sequoia planted 100-150 years in France are beginning to have major health concerns (see Villeroy Park), yet much less hydrophilic species as the bald cypress ... It is possible that enough water is the first time (via the source of the stream that must exist at depth even in summer), but when it will capture 100% of the resource it will start to get stuck in the pipes ... The only way I see to help find the fleet is the same principle: cover + litter> attraction for earthworms> bailing ease. You have a picture?
christophe49 wrote:
For the broom I shared mine and old people should not stand even more, suddenly they? S? Affalent? on nearby plants. j? still try to transplant seedlings.
The seedlings should work too. I really think that you will save time. Nature is well done, this is typically a species that rehabilitates poor soil. This is a very light demanding species (such as heather by the way), when trees and shrubs will be too much shade they will disappear on their own. The idea is to use them for 5-10 years ahead. Even the oaks should not be too embarrassed because they grow stronger the early grades (just to tear the stratum truancy /shrub).
christophe49 wrote:
regarding amphibians, frogs redheads are wandering down near the? Envoy. Near the salamander? A shelter located along? A little oak wood.
Good sign on Environmental Quality is encouraging!
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christophe49



Joined: 10 Jun 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is a picture of the bald cypress, it measures + /- 8 meters: and this morning I found myself strolling in myxomycetes: they were near a pine stump, and other on the floor. and another view of the famous area "challenge":
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Florent



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful cypress, beautiful spire. I hope this is not a barking I think I see at its base. Fuligo septica, that's for twisting, the fungus that moves. I have unfortunately never seen up close. "J? Have cleared three small? Thicket? oak. C? Silent discharges that grew from strains culled. There were about 6 square meters of discharges around each strain. J? Gift've kept mine who was best and most beautiful port for each? One of the three areas. "Humm I did not realize there were stump sprouts and root suckers, it's a bargain! And I fear not being clear when I spoke of clarification: it was the medium term (5-10 years?). I think we can leave one tree per m2 for a few years without any problems: it is sufficient to observe the density of a wasteland. Now this is the next step: shrub layer. Rather let it grow these suckers will not only produce high-growth trees (root already in place) a lot of MO, but also help keep alive the root system of oaks felled, so mycorrhizae associated with it: all seedlings (and plantations) will be greatly facilitated oak (mycorrhization of soil is a major factor key to the resumption of trees). The only downside is that it will probably consider the oaks from suckers as "ephemeral" in the long run since, having a weird root system (the portion of the mother) or ill (decay of strain), they will be vulnerable to any storm (which is not excluded by these days). But it is not there ... That's why I would use it fully for 10 years (with ladle), while setting the young seedlings from well protected (for children, grandchildren, great grandchildren ...).
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